维基百科:爭議解決布告板/範例

本範例來源：en:Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_249#Neith

涅伊特

——成功解決爭議。原因請見留言。

由Potymkin於2024年8月8日 (四) 23:14 (UTC)提交。

已關閉的討論

以下討論已關閉。請勿修改。後續的評論應在爭議解決布告板的討論頁中發表。請勿再對這次討論進行任何編輯。 您是否已經在討論頁上進行過討論？ 是的，我已經在討論頁上討論過這個問題。 爭議發生位置 涅伊特 （编辑 | 讨论 | 历史 | 链接 | 监视 | 日志）（en:Neith） 相關使用者 Potymkin（讨论 | 貢獻） A. Parrot（讨论 | 貢獻） BrocadeRiverPoems（讨论 | 貢獻） 爭議概述 關於古凱美特神祇的新信息顯示，埃及人將女神涅伊特稱為「利比亞的涅伊特」，這揭示了她的起源問題。用戶A. Parrot認為這一說法是錯誤的，堅持涅伊特完全來自埃及；而用戶Potymkin則主張埃及人確實描述了涅伊特的利比亞起源。A. Parrot引用了兩位埃及學者Wilkinson和Lesko的研究來證明涅伊特的純埃及起源，但在討論頁中詳細引用他們的書籍及頁碼後，這兩位學者實際上也認同「利比亞的涅伊特」說法。在與Lesko的郵件聯繫中，她也支持涅伊特的利比亞起源。目前，雙方都不願讓步，這個問題需要最終解決。 在提交之前，您曾經採取過哪些措施來嘗試解決這個爭端？ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Neith#Claimed_Berber_origin 您覺得我們要如何協助解決這個爭端？ 我覺得花時間仔細考慮雙方的觀點，以及討論頁上提出的論據，可以協助解決這個問題。 A. Parrot的爭議概要 請儘量保持簡短—如果可以的話，請控制在2,000字元以內，這樣我們可以更快幫助您。 涅伊特在埃及被崇拜超過3,000年，最早關於她的證據來自於模糊的前王朝時期。根據來源，關於她的起源仍有不確定性；Susan Tower Hollis在《五位埃及女神：她們可能的起源、行為與關係》（第115頁）中說，涅伊特「是這些女神中最大的謎團」。 爭論的焦點集中在文章引用的兩段話上。Lesko在1999年（第47頁）指出：「Hermann Kees描述三角洲西北部主要由利比亞人居住，並指出在古王國時期，涅伊特被稱為來自利比亞的涅伊特，『好像她是鄰近經常與尼羅河谷居民交戰的民族的女酋長。』然而，其他埃及學者對這一聯繫持有異議，並認為 Neith 的首次出現純屬埃及起源。」Wilkinson在2003年（第157頁）指出：「儘管她有時被稱為『利比亞的涅伊特』，但這可能僅僅是指利比亞地區靠近她在三角洲西部的主要省份。」 Potymkin堅持文章應將涅伊特描述為利比亞或「埃及-利比亞」神祇，並認為這些來源中的段落支持這一觀點。我認為文章應該指出學者對涅伊特的起源不確定，將利比亞起源視為一種假說，而非確定事實。Potymkin一直錯誤地認為我堅持涅伊特是「純粹的埃及」神祇。A. Parrot (talk) 19:00, 9 August 2024 (UTC) 涅伊特條目的討論 在志工正式開啟案件前，請盡量減少討論。如果有需要，請在條目討論頁繼續進行討論。 志工提醒——提交的編輯者尚未在其他編輯者的討論頁通知。Robert McClenon (talk) 02:41, 9 August 2024 (UTC) 調解員的第零次發言（涅伊特） 我已準備好主持有關涅伊特條目的調解討論。 請閱讀DRN規則A，並告知是否同意遵守這些規則，以及是否希望進行調解討論。 調解討論的目的是改進條目。如果你同意進行調解討論，請簡明扼要地說明你希望在條目中修改什麼，或希望保持哪些內容不變，而這些內容是其他編輯想要修改的部分。 Robert McClenon (talk) 21:20, 9 August 2024 (UTC) 編輯群的第零次發言（涅伊特） Thank you @Robert McClenon for offering to help to make wikipedia articles more comprehensive I am happy that you are able to provide some of your time for this issue, in the Neith article I would like to keep the following statement in the lead of the article: "was an early Libyan deity  worshipped by Libyans and ancient Egyptians. She was adopted from Libya (or was a divinity of the local Libyan population in Sais in Egypt, where her oracle was located). Her worship is attested as early as Predynastic Egypt, around 6000 BC." along with all of its relevant sources, this is due to sources I provided from UNESCO library, World History Encyclopedia which their publications are recommended by many educational institutions including: Oxford University Common Sense Education School Library Journal MERLOT University of Wisconsin-Madison and several archeologists and egyptologists and multiple other sources that confirm the statement to be kept. Potymkin (talk) 20:17, 11 August 2024 (UTC) 調解員的第一次發言（涅伊特） 每位編輯已經簡要說明了他們對涅伊特起源的看法。一位編輯認為她是利比亞的神祇，崇拜傳播到埃及；另一位編輯認為她的起源尚不確定，但假說之一包括利比亞起源。是否有編輯願意嘗試起草一個雙方都能接受的妥協措辭？ 根據DRN規則A，要求每位編輯至少每48小時參與一次討論。如果你們其中任何一位需要更長時間的維基假期，請告訴我，我們可以探討制定其他規則。Robert McClenon (talk) 06:14, 14 August 2024 (UTC) 編輯群的第一次發言（涅伊特） @Robert McClenon，感謝您花時間正確分析雙方的觀點，我提出了「埃及-利比亞神祇」這一術語，這是一個可以接受的方案，我已在討論頁en:Talk:Neith#Claimed Berber origin中提出這個術語來嘗試解決問題。我也對任何能表達涅伊特利比亞根源的術語持開放態度。老實說，我認為文章中已經存在的表述「她來自利比亞，或是埃及塞易斯當地利比亞人口的神祇，她的神諭所在地就在那裡」已經足夠表達多種觀點。Potymkin (talk) 09:30, 14 August 2024 (UTC) Robert McClenon：抱歉之前沒有回應。我之前從未參與過DRN討論，因此對指示和格式有些困惑。例如，我甚至不確定是否將這條評論放在了正確的位置——如果有錯，請幫忙移到正確的地方。 我的問題是，我不清楚Potymkin願意接受什麼樣的妥協來反映來源實際所述。Potymkin的論點建立在綜合的基礎上，User:Lone-078（他也是這場爭端的參與者之一，但還未被通知來這裡討論）在評論中巧妙地總結了這一點。涅伊特起源於前王朝時期的利比亞民族，這是一種埃及學的假說，但並非普遍接受的觀點。可以確定的是，2,000年後，利比亞人崇拜她，但這並不意味著她的起源確定是利比亞或埃及-利比亞。任何與此相反的說法都是對來源的誤解。A. Parrot (talk) 15:45, 15 August 2024 (UTC) @Robert McClenon：抱歉我不太了解，但接下來我們應該怎麼做呢？A. Parrot (talk) 14:14, 18 August 2024 (UTC) 調解員的第二次發言（涅伊特） 接下來的步驟是我會請每位編輯提出修訂版的開頭段落，說明他們認為條目的開場應該如何寫。由於問題集中在她的起源，任何關於她起源的說法都必須清楚地引用來源。換句話說，如果你提議她是利比亞起源，則需要有來源明確指出她是利比亞起源。接下來我們可以討論來源的可靠性問題，但首先我們需要比較各位提出的開頭段落修訂版草稿。 Robert McClenon (talk) 19:13, 18 August 2024 (UTC) 編輯群的第二次發言 (Neith) thank you for your consideration @Robert McClenon, the following is my suggested lead paragraph where sources show her clear libyan origin down to the book and the page: Neith /ˈniː.ɪθ/ (通用希臘語：Νηΐθ, a borrowing of the Demotic form 埃及語：nt, likely originally to have been nrt "the terrifying one"; also spelled Nit, Net, or Neit) was an early Libyan deity worshipped by Libyans and ancient Egyptians. She was adopted from Libya (or was a divinity of the local Libyan population in Sais in Egypt, where her oracle was located). Her worship is attested as early as Predynastic Egypt, around 6000 BC. She was said to be the creator and governor of the universe and the inventor of birth. She was the goddess of the cosmos, fate, wisdom, water, rivers, mothers, childbirth, hunting, weaving, and, originally, war. Potymkin (talk) 21:52, 18 August 2024 (UTC) This is imperfect, but I think it better reflects the relative weight given by the sources. They don't usually spend much time on her possible Libyan origins and pay more attention to other aspects of Neith, so our article lead should do the same. A. Parrot (talk) 03:24, 20 August 2024 (UTC) Neith /ˈniː.ɪθ/ (通用希臘語：Νηΐθ, a borrowing of the Demotic form 埃及語：nt, also spelled Nit, Net, or Neit) was an ancient Egyptian deity. She was connected with warfare, as indicated by her emblem of two crossed bows, and with motherhood, as shown by texts that call her the mother of particular deities, such as the sun god Ra and the crocodile god Sobek. As a mother goddess, she was sometimes said to be the creator of the world. She also had a presence in funerary religion, and this aspect of her character grew over time: she became one of the four goddesses who protected the coffin and internal organs of the deceased. Neith is one of the earliest Egyptian deities to appear in the archaeological record; the earliest signs of her worship date to the Naqada II period (约 3600–3350 BC). Her main cult center was the city of Sais in Lower Egypt, near the western edge of the Nile Delta, and some Egyptologists have suggested that she originated among the Libyan peoples who lived nearby. She was the most important goddess in the Early Dynastic Period (约 3100–2686 BC) and had a significant shrine at the capital, Memphis. In subsequent eras she lost her preeminence to other goddesses, such as Hathor, but she remained important, particularly during the Twenty-sixth Dynasty (664–525 BC), when Sais was Egypt's capital. She was worshipped in many temples during the Greek and Roman periods of Egyptian history, most significantly Esna in Upper Egypt, and the Greeks identified her with their goddess Athena. 調解員的第三次發言 (Neith ) I have looked over the draft versions of the lede sentence. The first conflict between the two versions has to do with the nationality of Neith, in the first sentence. I suggest that the first sentence be written to compromise between calling her Egyptian and calling her Libyan. I suggest that the opening sentence be rewritten to something like: Neith [followed by discussion of the origin of the name] was a North African goddess who was worshiped in ancient Egypt beginning in Predynastic Egypt and in Libya.. The remainder of the lede paragraph can then be reworked to follow and expand on Are the editors willing to work with a revised version of the article that begins by referring to Neitth as a North African goddess? Robert McClenon (talk) 19:43, 21 August 2024 (UTC) 編輯群的第三次發言 (Neith) @Robert McClenon I am very happy with your suggestion calling her a north african goddess and expanding on her origins later on in the article. I suggest instead of saying Neith [followed by discussion of the origin of the name] was a North African goddess who was worshiped in Predynastic Egypt and in Ancient Libya as far back as 3200 BC. I think my suggestion of calling her Egyptian-Libyan goddess is not bad either, since its more specific about north africa but it doesn't cause problem to owing to one origin of hers or another. I hope you find my comment helpful My problem with that is that is that Neith is specifically known, and usually referred to in the sources, as an Egyptian goddess. The Libyan peoples of this period did not use writing, so the evidence about Neith's worship comes almost entirely from Egyptian sources. It's not clear if she was worshipped by Libyans outside the Nile Delta at all periods, or if she was only worshipped by those Libyans who periodically settled in the Delta and adopted Egyptian customs. I don't see anything in Potymkin's sources that contradicts the latter possibility. That doesn't mean she wasn't a Libyan deity, only that we don't know enough to say how extensive her presence in Libya was. Her presence in Egypt is the presence we can see in the evidence, and therefore it's the emphasis we find in the sources. A. Parrot (talk) 04:29, 22 August 2024 (UTC) Instead of focusing on finding a solution to the issue @Robert McClenon you can probably note the stubborn approach to the issue of considering Neith a purely Egyptian deity by the other arguing party, this renders any ability to reach a fair and team oriented 2 party solution like beating against a wall. All in all my arguing party is bent on putting Neith as an Egyptian deity despite Ancient Egyptians themselves and UNESCO and all other archeologists calling her a Libyan deity. therefore the concession Egyptian-Libyan is more than a huge step on my part to resolve the issue that is clearly closed which is that the population concerned with the deity called her libyan and this is well confirmed by UNESCO and World History Encyclopedia which is sourced by institutuions like oxford university and other show the clear Libyan Origins of the deity. Potymkin (talk) 17:06, 22 August 2024 (UTC) 参考資料 Fourth statement by possible moderator (Neith ) One editor has written: Instead of focusing on finding a solution to the issue, Robert McClenon, you can probably note the stubborn approach to the issue of considering Neith a purely Egyptian deity by the other arguing party, this renders any ability to reach a fair and team oriented 2 party solution like beating against a wall. I don't understand. Please reread DRN Rule A.3.1, which says: Comment on content, not contributors. … The purpose of discussion is to improve the article, not to complain about other editors. I am not assessing complaints about other editors, because I am trying to find a way around any impasse. So, yes, I am focusing on finding a solution to the issue. If either editor wishes to withdraw from moderated dispute resolution, they may do so, because it is voluntary. However, any editor should read the boomerang essay before filing a report at a conduct forum. I have suggested that the lede sentence describe Neith as a North African goddess who was worshiped in Egypt and Libya. The body of the article can discuss how scholars differ as to where her worship originated. Are there any alternate suggestions for how to move forward? Robert McClenon (talk) 04:36, 23 August 2024 (UTC) Fourth statements by editors (Neith) The key question for me is: is there an RS that says Neith was worshipped by Libyans outside the Nile Delta, not just Egyptianized Libyans living in it? If there is, I'd be entirely willing to describe her as an "Egyptian and Libyan" deity, regardless of where she may have originated. A. Parrot (talk) 08:22, 23 August 2024 (UTC) Fifth statement by possible moderator (Neith ) There are at least two possible areas of content issues. The first is what the lede sentence should say. The second is what should be in the body of the article. The lede should summarize the most important points as stated by reliable sources, and any disagreements or uncertainties should either also be summarized in the lede, or should be avoided, so that details can be explored in the body of the article. If I understand correctly, the main issue in dispute is the lede. I think that this is a case where we can avoid making contentious statements in the lede. Does anyone disagree that she was a North African goddess? If there is any disagreement as to her origin, is there any need to raise that disagreement in the lede, as opposed to discussing it in the body of the article? I am inviting each editor to provide their own second proposed version of the lede sentence to see if we can find something to agree on. I have proposed what I think should be a compromise, but would like to see any other proposals. Are there any issues about what to say in the body of the article? Robert McClenon (talk) 21:11, 25 August 2024 (UTC) Fifth statements by editors (Neith) I believe that the suggestion Neith is a north African goddess is an acceptable way of putting her origins, but please to take the time to reflect on the suggestion Egyptian-Libyan as an alternative to North African, my intentions as well as my counterpart's I believe are to make wikipedia articles as less ambiguous as possible and reflecting on it further. it seems we are stuck on whether attributing Neith's origins to Libya, or the Libyan population of Sais. My counterpart's argument likes to call her Egyptian per her origins in Ancient Kemet is not misleading but simply ignores the information provided from my sources that both egyptologists and ancient egyptians consider Sais which was not yet part of Kemet as Libya and they referred to the place as Libya, calling her egyptian takes away from the contributions of the Libyans which I find unnecessary especially when both ancient Egyptians referred to her as "Libyan Neith" and Egyptologists talk extensively of her Libyan origins. the issue is most certainly settled when greek historians such as Hesiod, Appolodorus and Also herodotus who travelled to Ancient egypt also refer to Athena and Neith's origins from Libya, that which is born from Lake tritonis in North africa which is goddess of the libyans as goddess of wisedom, warfare and weaving. -Neith is portrayed wearing a shuttle on her head as the goddess of weaving from Libya or wearing the Libyan feather on her head or both. the Libyan feather in ancient egypt is the symbol in reference for Libyans (people) and Libya. -Ancient egyptians refer to Neith as Libyan Neith and goddess of the West -Greeks Refer to Neith as Libyan -Greeks refer to Athena as Neith as Also Libyan -UNESCO confirms her Libyan origins -Egyptologists refer to her as Libyan and also talk of her Libyan origins extensively. the inscription 'Libyan Neith in her Ka' (Ka = Soul) is used in multiple egyptologist articles. -World History encyclopedia affirms Libyan Origins therefore its undoubtable that Neith is Libyan in origin. the egyptians however understood this very well and they themselves made an Egyptian variation of Neith that had Egyptian instead of Libyan characteristics and they called this new goddess Nut. I accept Nut the variation of Neith that is Egyptian made, But Neith herself is Libyan par excellence ! Neith's Appearance: Neith is portrayed as a regal and powerful goddess, with an elegant and imposing stature. Her skin might have a golden or sun-kissed tone, reflecting the desert environment of Libya. Libyan Feather Headdress: Neith wears a tall, feathered headdress characteristic of Libyan iconography. The feathers are elongated and vibrant, with intricate patterns and details that symbolize the culture's connection to nature and the divine. The feathers may be depicted in colors such as gold, green, and blue, representing fertility, life, and the sky. Hieroglyphs: Surrounding Neith, hieroglyphs are engraved or painted onto the headdress or her garments. These symbols represent war, protection, wisdom, and weaving—elements associated with Neith's divine role. The hieroglyphs are delicate yet prominent, ensuring they are a focal point of the imagery. Traditional Garb: Neith is dressed in flowing garments made of linen, adorned with intricate patterns that blend Egyptian and Libyan designs. The fabric is rich in texture and color, with decorative elements that emphasize her divine status. Symbols of Power: Neith holds a scepter or ankh, symbols of power and life, further reinforcing her status as a goddess of both war and wisdom. This visual representation merges the cultural aspects of both Egypt and Libya, showcasing Neith as a goddess honored in both traditions. Potymkin (talk) 19:52, 27 August 2024 (UTC) It's trivially true that Neith was a North African goddess, because Egypt and Libya are both in North Africa, but North Africa is a lot bigger than Egypt and Libya, so that level of generality is unhelpful. Any other encyclopedia would call her "an Egyptian goddess"—that is where she was undeniably worshipped and where the overwhelming majority of the evidence is from. Throughout this dispute, I have been open to compromise on the wording if if I see either of two things: a source that clearly indicates that a Libyan origin for Neith is the consensus view in the field of Egyptology; or a source establishing that Neith was worshipped by Libyans in Libya, not Egypt. I have not seen either. (The assertion above that Sais was considered to be part of Libya at some point in Egyptian history is not sourced. I have no doubt that SAis was a point of contact between the two cultures, like the First Cataract region was a point of contact between Egyptian and Nubian culture, but I don't think that is enough to justify calling Neith Libyan.) A. Parrot (talk) 22:31, 27 August 2024 (UTC) Sixth statement by possible moderator (Neith ) It appears that one editor wants to describe Neith as a Libyan goddess, and another editor wants to describe her as an Egyptian goddess. Is that correct? An article about a goddess who was worshiped two thousand years ago or six thousand years ago is a historical article, and should be based on reliable historical sources. It is at this time more important how her origin has been described by twentieth-century scholars than by ancient scholars. It is true that the ancient sources were Egyptian and characterized her as Egyptian because the ancient written records are Egyptian. What do modern scholars say her origin was? I am now asking each editor to identify two reliable historical sources that support their view as to the origin of Neith. Are there any other questions? Robert McClenon (talk) 23:13, 29 August 2024 (UTC) Sixth statements by editors (Neith) @Robert McClenon thank you for the follow up on Neith's origins. Publications on the certainty of the Libyan origins of Neith are so numerous that the already provided sources of UNESCO and World History Encyclopedia have adopted it without question, indeed it is extremely important to show that 20th century and 21st century scholars have now agreed on her Libyan origins as a known fact, here, on top of the previously given sources, some more of the most well known and well cited publications on Neith (in English): 2020: Here the authors from this publication in 2020 exploring Lindsey Jackson an Egyptologist from the University of California, San Diego, Rovik, Patricia from the journal in Mediterranean Archeology unveils the origins of Neith and Athena from Libya as a goddess whose origins are of Libya 1987 : the official Catalogue of the Museum of Cairo also shows that the Delta in page 42 included Libya and hence Neith the Saite Deity is considered Libyan in that regard. 1945: The Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute of Great Britain and Ireland describes neith as the "Libyan Delta Goddess" 2011:this publication in the famous Ancient Egypt Magazine, 2011, Vol 11, Issue 6, p30 quotes Five Egyptian goddesses: their possible beginnings, actions, and relationships in the third millennium BCE by Susan Hollis mentions the Libyan Origins of this deity 1945 :"at Esna he had as consort the great Libyan goddess, Neith: a close likeness between Egyptians and Libyans" 2016: "There seems little reason to doubt that Neith was the same deity as the Libyan goddess whom Herodotus equates with Athene; and likely the same deity as Tanit who would become the principal goddess in later Carthage." - University of Manchester here you note that the consideration of Neith as Libyan goddess is consistent throughout the 20th and 21st century, whether it is the Royal Anthropological Institute of Great Britain and Ireland publishing this in 1945, the Official Catalogue of Museum of Cairo in Egypt in 1987 or even *UNESCO* and the *Journal in Mediterranean Archeology* today. hereby confirming that Neith being considered Libyan isn't new age revisionism, but an already well-established concept backed up by high trust, high research institutes in each era. It is without doubt that modern scholars consider Neith as Libyan. Potymkin (talk) 14:45, 30 August 2024 (UTC) Barbara S. Lesko in The Great Goddesses of Egypt, University of Oklahoma Press, 1999 (p. 47): "Hermann Kees describes the northwestern part of the delta as being inhabited primarily by Libyans and points out that during the Old Kingdom Neith was characterized by Egyptians as Neith from Libya, 'as if she was the chieftainess of the neighboring people with whom the inhabitants of the Nile valley were at all times at war.' Other Egyptologists dispute this connection, however, and the first appearance of Neith is purely Egyptian." Richard H. Wilkinson in The Complete Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt, Thames & Hudson, 2003 (p. 157): "Although she was sometimes called 'Neith of Libya', this reference may simply refer to the proximity of the Libyan region to the goddess's chief province in the west­ern Delta." A. Parrot (talk) 22:06, 30 August 2024 (UTC) 調解員第七次發言（涅伊特） 看來有些來源將她描述為利比亞神祇，而有些來源則將她描述為埃及神祇。是否有編輯願意妥協，將她稱為北非神祇或利比亞-埃及神祇？或者有其他的提議嗎？如果雙方無法達成共識，我們將透過RFC來確定社群的粗略共識。 目前還有其他問題嗎？Robert McClenon (talk) 03:55, 2 September 2024 (UTC) 另一位編輯者已加入討論。請他們閱讀DRN規則A，並對有關涅伊特國籍陳述的問題作出回應。Robert McClenon (talk) 03:58, 2 September 2024 (UTC) Seventh statements by editors (Neith) hello @Robert McClenon , sorry for being inactive for a while I was a little busy, I would like to say that I am happy with @BrocadeRiverPoems 's final revision on the Neith page, he has demonstrated excellent ability to moderate in between. his statement that Neith is worshipped by both egyptians and Libyans without infringing on either sources or relevence of the publications is excellent. this would put the matter at rest. Please consult with the other side of the debate agrees or disagrees with the final revision to see if the matter could be put to rest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Potymkin (talk • contribs) 21:18, 2 September 2024 (UTC) There are not sources that call her Libyan. As User:BrocadeRiverPoems has demonstrated extensively on the talk page, there are sources that say she may have originated among Libyans in prehistoric times, and there are sources that say Libyans who lived in Egypt worshipped her in historic times. This is an important distinction: ancient polytheists worshipped whichever deity was relevant to them. Because polytheistic deities were closely tied to places (they were effectively considered to be members of the community that worshipped them), people who settled in a place would adopt the deities of that community, whether or not their ancestors had any connection to that deity. Calling Neith "Libyan" because some Libyan groups who settled around Sais worshipped her would be a bit like calling Set a Canaanite god because the Hyksos who settled at Avaris worshipped him, or calling Sobek a Greek god because the Greek colonists at Karanis worshipped him. I'm more interested in the possibility that — setting aside the question of how she originated — Neith was worshipped in historic times by Libyans in Libya, i.e., the Western Desert. If sources say that she was, then I would be happy to describe Neith as an "Egyptian and Libyan goddess". But the sources Potymkin has produced don't seem to say that. A. Parrot (talk) 08:15, 2 September 2024 (UTC) I accept the rules. One thing I have learned in reading the multitude of sources provided on the matter is that there seems to be a confusion in what some of the sources are saying. For instance, one source speaks of a possible connection of this rainsender of the Auseans, and the Dea Coelestis of the Libyans in general, with a goddess of the western Egyptian Delta when discussing similarities between deities, specifically the similarities between Athena, Tanit and Neith, with Tanit being a Libyan Goddess, and thus a possible connection. The implication here is that Athena is also potentially derived from this Libyan Goddess, do we now go and refer to Athena as an ancient Libyan Goddess as well? A Greco-North-African Deity? There seems to be some matter of debate in the scholarship itself about the theory that Neith originated from the Libyans as most sources that I've seen describe the theory as contested or lacking in evidence. Most, if not all, of the reliable sources which are provided to say Neith is of Libyan origin note that it is a theory and one which is not universally agreed upon. Describing Neith as a North African deity is marginally acceptable, but I fear that this change is giving undue weight to what is appearing more and more like a WP:FRINGETHEORY. I also wonder is it necessary to even declare Neith "of Egyptian origin" or "of Libyan origin" and why is it not acceptable to simply describe her as I have presently done so in the lead? That Neith is a Goddess that was worshipped by ancient Egyptians and Libyans? It is factually true and represented in the sources. Other articles such as Lamia stipulate what mythology they originated in, but do not declare an originating ethnic/national group, it focuses instead on the mythology, Tinjis says berber and greek mythology, Amunet, Hathor and Anput all just say "in ancient Egyptian Religion..." without saying specifically where it originated from. Likewise, Bastet uses the language a goddess of ancient Egyptian religion possibly of Nubian origin I would propose as an alternative we adopt some of the language of the Bastet article, and write instead that Neith is: a goddess in ancient Egyptian religion, possibly of Libyan origin. This would represent that Neith's status in the Egyptian religion and note that there is a possible Libyan origin. This seems to be perfectly neutral language that provides due weight to both claims. This, to me, feels like a reasonable compromise. Brocade River Poems 11:24, 2 September 2024 (UTC) 調解員的第八次發言（涅伊特） 我們已經達成了妥協，這反映了現代可靠來源對涅伊特的描述。一位編輯者已表示同意這一妥協。如果另一位編輯者也同意，或在48小時內沒有提出異議，我將把這個爭端標記為已解決。如果還有分歧，我們將啟動徵求意見程序。 目前還有其他問題嗎？ Robert McClenon (talk) 01:47, 5 September 2024 (UTC) Eighth statements by editors (Neith) As of present, I have no further questions or anything to provide for discussion. I shall wait and see if the other editor endorses the compromise. --Brocade River Poems 21:53, 5 September 2024 (UTC) "…goddess in ancient Egyptian religion, possibly of Libyan origin" is fine by me. A. Parrot (talk) 04:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC) 参考資料 以上討論已關閉。請勿修改。後續的評論應在爭議解決布告板的討論頁中發表。請勿再對這次討論進行任何編輯。